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Green Building Discussion
Topic: Countertop Material Choices
Discussion Participants:
- Ed Mays is looking for some "green" countertops
- Hal Levin would love to see a decision process
- Norbert Senf uses local marble in his house
- John Abrams uses salvaged slate
- John Bunzick with a few ideas
- Barbara Lamprecht has tried concrete
All postings are the opinion of the writer, and BuildingGreen can take no responsibility
for their accuracy or appropriateness.
Ed Mays is looking for some "green" countertops
From: Ed Mays
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 1997 5:22 AM
I am working on a project to produce "Green" kitchen cabinets and while we have been able to find all the low VOC materials, low VOC finishes, and certified and/or recycled wood for the cabinets, we are still trying to decide on the best new "Green" durable and cost effective counter top material to use. We have looked at and pretty much decided against products like Environ Biocomposite, Milestone by Cementics, Tiles(except for accent), and the Formica like products(perhaps we could use one of the Formica Ligna line). Wood, stainless steel, granite 2nds and perhaps a new product called Fireslate(waiting for information) are the options we have come up with so far. Have any of you come across and have experience with any other counter top materials that might work as a Greener solution(besides the Corian type surfaces). I have been enjoying this very professional, educational, and inspirational forum for a couple of months now at least and I hope to contribute in some small way myself sometime. Usually some one else has already provided an excellent answer or pathway before I can get online again. Thanks for putting this forum together and I look forward to a New Year of much progress toward that ellusive truly "Green" and consumer pleasing home and office.
ENDURA HARDWOODS AND WOODWORKS Fine Hardwoods and Products that are Soft on the Environment 2401 NW Marken St. Ph: 541-383-5003 Fax: 541-317-8391 Bend, OR 97701 e-mail: endura@teleport.com
Top of fileHal Levin would love to see a decision process
From: Hal Levin
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 1997 5:07 PM
Ed: An excellent way to contribute would be to share what you learned in selecting the cabinets. The critical elements for me would be the following: 1) the information you obtained, 2) the process used to obtain it, (phone, product literature, books/references, etc.) 3) the criteria you used to make your selection including, if you had it, the priorities you used to consider trade-offs among the various elements of your total criteria set, any basis, rationale, or background for selecting those criteria, 4) the process to apply the criteria. 5) the most difficult challenges you faced in the process. 6) your final choices and any reservations or concerns that might remain in your mind about their environmental soundness.
I know this sounds like a lot of work, but it sure would allow a very focused dialogue to ensue on some fundamental principles and issues surrounding "green" buildings.
Regarding your concerns over counter materials, I would suggest that durability and a material that can be maintained without the periodic application of toxic materials, finishes, or even cleaning products as very important considerations. Thus, any earth-based material with a hard surface (marble or other stone, tile, etc.) will work, as will some of the synthetics (corian, formica). Then the questions of aesthetics, embodied energy. ecosphere contamination during mining/extraction/production, scarcity of the resource, etc. are all important as well. There will be no "perfect" solution, but at least you will articulate the trade-offs and make an informed decision. Finally, a prayer for whatever damage to the planet will be part of a trend toward higher environmental consciousness.
Hal
Norbert Senf uses local marble in his house
From: Norbert Senf
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 1997 4:56 PM
Our counter at home is a piece of 1.25" thick local (Ontario) Adair marble. Its a plain grey, with blue patches and has a honed (not polished) finish. It is available cheaply at local masonry yards (also in 2"), and is used for fireplace mantels and hearths.
We just put it up temporarily (you simply lay it on the base cabinets with no backing - for a permanent installation, use silicone and some metal shims). That was 10 years ago - we really like the way it has aged, and it's great for baking and pastries, putting hot things on, etc.
Best.........Norbert Senf
John Abrams uses salvaged slate
From: John R. Abrams
Sent: Monday, January 06, 1997 7:42 AM
One of the materials we've used most extensively for counter tops, over many years, is salvaged slate roofing. It makes a fine surface and is readily available (here in the East; I don't know if there is much slate out West).
We use the slates as tile, lay them on a Duerock (cement board) substrate, and grout with cement grout. They need little or no finish (we use mineral oil and occasionally renew), are very durable, heat resistant, impervious to just about anything, and remarkably easy to care for. The slates are available in a variety of deep colors (green, gray, red, black) and spilled coffee colors the grout a neutal brown over the years. They get richer over time from sponging and scouring.
One of the nice things about slate is that the old roofing tiles come in sizes as large as 14" x 24", so a single tile can be used for the full depth of a standard counter if desired. They're easy to cut, and easy to repair (I think; we've never had to). We apply a wood edge to the face.
It's inexpensive too, because the slates are sold by the square as roofing, coverage figured with substantial laps. As tiles they end up costing $1.00/SF or less. Often they're available for little or nothing from roofing companies who are removing aged slates, and even material which has reached the end of its useful life as roofing is fine for counters, where it gets no exposure to weather and freeze/thaw cycles. We have also used this material for floors for at least 15 years. It's only a 1/4 ' thick, but we've used literally 1000's of sf and I've never seen one break once installed. Good stuff.
There are several companies in the East who specialize in the sale of salvaged slate. One is the New England Slate Company in Vermont @ (802) 247 - 8809. OOPS Salvage slate dealer is not NE Slate, it is Vermont Stone Trading Company, (802) 434 - 4374, and the cost is more like $2.00 - 3.00/SF if bought from a dealer, except red, which costs about three times as much.
508 / 645-2618 (W) jabrams@smc.vineyard.net John R. Abrams 508 / 645-3182 (F) P O Box 359 Chilmark, MA 02535
John Bunzick with a few ideas
From: JBunzick
Sent: Monday, January 06, 1997 8:33 AM
Regarding the comments on countertop materials:
I agree that slate and especially granite are good choices for counters. I would add ceramic tile to that selection. However, I would caution about the use of marble, notwithstanding Norbert Senf's success, only because it is liable to stain easily. This could be a disadvantage in a kitchen environment unless it is sealed. But then maintenance chemicals are introduced. Of course, maple (unfinished) has been used as a kitchen work surface for generations. I think that that would be okay too as long as raw meats and salmonella-containing foods are not cut directly on its surface.
Certainly in my mind, plastic laminate has it all over solid surfacing when measured by sustainability. Laminate is only 1/16 inch thick while solid surfacing is a minimum of 1/2 inch, often 3/4. The resins are different, but both are petroleum-derived. Phenolic with melamine wear surface for plastic laminate, polyesters and/or acrylics for solid surfacing (depending on manufacturer).
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Dean Packard Rafuse, Inc. jbunzick@dprarchitects.com
Barbara Lamprecht has tried concrete
From: b. lamprecht
Sent: Monday, January 06, 1997 12:47 PM
I have used concrete for countertops, sealed with a poly acrylic sealer called Durosheen, and am wondering if there are better products out there to seal with. (I reduce aggregate on top layer and use a smaller grit sand so the surface is smoother even before grinding.)
This is my first e-mail to greenbuilding and I look forward to hearing from you; I'm learning -- or at least being exposed to -- a lot. Thanks.
barbara lamprecht
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